Recently banned members - why?

[Neko Koneko]

Most people here at Ichigo's know of the RP we host on these forums. This RP is the result of a lot of work by several of our most respected members. We at Ichigo's should be proud to have such a hard working crew always trying to think up new things to make this RP even more enjoyable for everyone, and I think that most of the people who participate in the RP respect them for their hard work.

However, some people don't appreciate other people's hard work except for one reason: to steal it and act as if it's their work. We've recently discovered yet another Harmonic Dissonance clone on the web. This is not the first one, and unfortunately, it will probably not be the last one. They say that immitation is the biggest compliment, but we at ichigo's are highly offended by yet another rip-off of the RP our people put so much of their time in. Therefore, the RP section of the Ichigo's staff has decided that without warning all the people who are involved with that RP and might pose a threat to our materials (which is everything in the RP as a whole) will be permanently banned from Ichigo's Forums.

These people will hereby lose the right to ever come to Ichigo's again:


Eternity
Mithiras
Wraith
wraith_dman
Aeris
Link


The following member will be banned from Harmonic Dissonance for security reasons:


Ashtr
Toki


Before you all start shouting about this being unfair - it is unfair that people from another forum snatch members away from here - it is unfair that these people join that forum knowing it's nothing but a shameless rip-off and we have the right to protect what we have created. We don't mind people joining other RP's - that's not our call. We do mind if that RP is just a shameless rip-off and those people joining know that it is. This is also the reason Ashtr is lucky, had he been a player in Harmonic Dissonance he wouldn't be welcome here anymore either.

That's all.

[crackthesky]

security reasons?

B.S.

If you have't noticed Angelic, over the past 11 or so months I've been at this site, I've never even tried your little RP.
I find any RP kinda...sad, so I tend to stay away.

So, yeah whatever.
Go ahead and ban me. =/

[Neko Koneko]

Like I said, you're not banned - because you're not in "our little RP". Still, we're not keen of having you in the RP either. If you don't care about the RP you won't miss it, now will you? You didn't lose any other rights as a member so it shouldn't bother you.

edit: Ignore Ashtr's user title, he's not banned. He just changed his user title to that.

[crackthesky]

hm.

good enough for me.

Rarely ever went into the section anyways.

[Al]

Angelic, I'm not doing this to pick a fight with you and the RP mods, but would it be possible to unban Toki? He seems to be innocent to me. Please allow me to state his case from our recent msn convo:

erhh.. but i havnt joined any other rp
i might hav signed up to another forum.. that has an rp in it.. but i havnt had any contact with that forum for a while.. havnt even looked at the rp section
wasnt ever involved
wasnt even involved at the other forum either
coz they can even go to that place and look for themselves... iv made probz 4posts all together at that forum... and havnt even made any in the rp section
i went there coz my friend just told me to join to talk.... and that was it...
but the thing is.. i never had any part of the rp over there!

[Neko Koneko]

I'll look into it.

edit: updated

[Kou]

Just want to say that while I respect your judgements on this particular case Angelic, I reckon you should take a more relaxed approach to these guys.

Having been a staff member of this and many other RP's, I must say the system of Harmonic Dissonace is pretty generic. Yup, its the storyline and attention to minor details that separates each work. (And in that terms, Ichigos is at the top of the line.) These guys probably have pinched stuff from here and there but you can't really call them thieves for using what is a very general way of playing forum RP. Ideas like missions I know Spiky thought of them himself, but such ideas were already in practice.

You can call copyright infringement if you say.. copy MacOS and name it BobOS (the whole code just copied and rearranged), but you can't call Linux developers copyright violators for making an OS can you?. (yes, bad metaphor. but I'm the God of those and that's one of the "less worst")

You might want to make a clearer definition of where "A forum based RP" ends and where "Harmonic Dissonance, powered by Ichigos Forums" begins.



Meh, no big loss to the community anyway, those guys hardly ever turned up.
actually... weren't they all RL friends or something?

[PFT_Shadow]

I know i allways question your judgement, but in this case wouldnt it be more sensible just to stop them accessing the RP. i mean, even if they are banned they will be able to see the RP correct? so this wont solve a continued miss use. In fact they will be able to continue without any monitoring whatsoever.
Isnt just denying them access to the RP a more appropriate solution

[Squiggle]

But that is like telling a convicted murderer that because you have found a way to prevent him from murdering anyone else that he is free to go. The banning is a form of punishment. Punishment for their theft and/or participation in the aforementioned theft.

[PFT_Shadow]

good point. but this doesnt solve the problem of theft of material. it will continue

[Squiggle]

This is not the first one, and unfortunately, it will probably not be the last one.

It's true, the theft will most likely continue. That is why we are so lucky to have good RP moderators for Harmonic Dissonance. Perhaps restricting the access of RP by guests? Whatever is called for I'm sure the RP mods have already thought about it or implemented it.

[DarkClone]

{Return from the dead post here}

I know I'm not a firm member of this forum, but I'd still like to say that I think you're being a tiny bit harsh on these guys, Angelic. Perhaps a ban over an extended period of time would be more fitting than a permanent ban?

[Kou]

Just going a little off topic: Good Mods. I'll give you that, if it wasn't that they're all absent or non-existent, or "isn't in charge of this and therefore I can't do it".

RP not only needs moderation but also motivation. feh.



^ that won't be necessary. you usually don't come back to a forum after you've been banned there for thieving, even if they clear your charges and want you back.

[random_tangent]

*waves at the Koumeister*

It's never been 'not in charge so can't do it', it's 'don't know how, so it wouldn't be fair on the players'. And we're currently implementing the solution to that problem. Everyone is learning how to do everything, which should solve the problems we've had in the past of capabilities.

And I know I don't fall into the absent or non-existant categories.

@PFT: we did discuss that option, but the fact that the majority of them are no longer active in Harmonic Dissonance warrented something more. Also, they will not be able to PARTICIPATE in this forum, which is the main part. Harmonic Dissonance has been built up into what it is through a HELL of a lot of hard work, and people have gone and ripped off the outline, and then gone and recruited members from here, anyway (which, remember, we're not allowed to advertise forums anyway so would have got them banned in the first place).

There was a hell of a lot of thought before ANY action was taken. We've given out warnings about the same sort of thing in the past, and many of the members involved in this case are the same ones we warned in the past. Obviously, they don't care about warnings. So we had to implement something more severe, and in this case, that meant bannage.

[Asher]

We can't be more realaxed. It's not the fact that yes, this does happen, but it's the principle of the copying. Yes, it happenes everywhere, people using others people's fantastic ideas. But how does that make you feel on either end? The person who created it is going to be pretty damned pissed off. All that hard work, thought, heck even love, and then somene so easily decides "Oh what a nifty idea, I think I'll use it too!" but it's not going to be the same. It won't have the same feeling, the same spirit. That's what cheap imitations are.

And the people who willinging choose the inferior products, well, I could say "Go fuck yourself" but maybe I'll use something more eloquent? They have chosen to do this. Chosen. They had the choice of something better in every aspect (of course, that's my humble opinion) but no, they chose the cheap imitation. Maybe it's just bad tast? Who knows? Who cares? Who honestly gives a damn what another has interests in?

Like I said, it's all a matter of principle. So much work went into that RP, I know, I've talked to the creators, listeing to their problems, attempted to help them, I know how much heart they put into this thing so that the members of this forum had access to a brilliant forum. When Somone comes and steals that, well, might as well claim their first born child too.

EDIT: Oh, and how do I know all about this? Well, I talk to ran and Spiky. In fact, I was their when this came up.

[Kou]

*waves at the Koumeister*

It's never been 'not in charge so can't do it', it's 'don't know how, so it wouldn't be fair on the players'. And we're currently implementing the solution to that problem. Everyone is learning how to do everything, which should solve the problems we've had in the past of capabilities.


Enough with that excuse, if I was still around, I would've whipped you into shape within a few days (and then you'd outgrow and eat me up, feh).
It's been like months since you became a mod. You think I just randomly gained my wisdom?.. experience comes from screwing up.. [/old wise guy]



Inu, Harmonic Dissonance in itself isn't totally original. Its got a lot of stuff from random bits here and there, with an original plot to tie it all up. But it wouldn't be fair if the D&D people sued us for copying them, would it?

Ya gotta figure out how much of it is "the generic stuff everyone uses" and how much of it is "our first born child". Sooner or later, the "first born child" becomes "public knowledge". We just have to guard the bit that's going to be unique to us.

[Squiggle]

Kou, ran tan and the other mods do as much as they can. And what they do do is a damn fine job! It's not as easy as it sounds to drop IRL stuff to update the character stats thread or so-such.

[random_tangent]

Well, like i said, my favourite excuse has gone down the drain anyhow :P And yes, I'm discovering how to do stuff both through necessity and through trial and error. And I refuse to drag up that old, MAJORLY dead 'if i was still around' thing. But none of the mod team is bloody well prepared to put up with people stealing what WAS ours in the first place, and though I'm going to start repeating myself soon, keep in mind that WE have a whopping great list of acknowledgements to places we got inspiration from.

[Kou]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, there was a battle between two forces. Then I got tired and bitched a little, and the next day I was freed from my enslaving duties!

But yeah, I was never away for more than 2 days without prior notice (most of the time LAN parties >_>)

[Al]

I'll look into it.

edit: updated

Thank you, that was much appreciated.

[Ravenholm]

Looking at this, you oughta consider the fact of pressure.

Person 1 looks at the RP, decides to join it, then Person 2 comes online (and has a liking for RPs). Person 1 likes the new RP, so what do they do? Attempt to 'persuade' (read: Pressure) Person 2 to join the new RP too. Person 2 doesn't like being 'persuaded', and gives in quickly.

It's a total possibility. Now I know I probably won't be listened to after THAT incident, but I'm just trying to raise a very possible point.

[Kilias]

Ok ... First of all ... Star Galaxy is nothing like Harmonic Dis*whatever* Sure we have played in HD I am Mithiras btw. But our concept is different the only thing that is alike is our missions, and I commend spiky for making such a great format for such. But Our RP has a totally different perspective. We have no classes, we have no moves we have no particular plot. And I think that Aeris should not be punished for that. She tried it once and she didn't like it, she tried it cause I asked her to seeing as she is a friend of mine.

Star Galaxy does share the mission concept but our leveling system is different we do not gain experience for doing missions and such. Besides that the RP we have isn't finished at all. Seeing as we've only had friends join and not many people choosing to join the RP those such as Toki and Ashtr. They joined because they are friends. And if you are being such an A$$ H0|3 about it is rediculous, I think you need to grow up and realise that even though ONE thing was similar ... I came here expecting one of the best RP's around till I found how corrupt the Mod's were, all siding with each other and their forum friends. and you say we pulled people from yours no we did not we asked kindly please join our forum (aka Aeris) and she was a nice friend and did so. And you also say you have a right to protect your RP and you are right you do that that right but you shouldn't take the rights of others away just for such a childish reason ... The rest is way different. I.E the combat scales, the kingdom factor, and a hellva lot more ... So who is really the one in the wrong here? Us? or you Angelic ... I can go on more if you'd like

[Meer]

Guuh, I think this entire thing is a little extreme. I don't mean to judge anyone, but I think there alot of easier ways to deal with this problem (perm. ban not being one of them). I suggest a temp. ban and probably a restriction from HD.

(Also, I don't want to pick sides but: even though it may be stealing, you should also take it as a bit of a compliment that they are using some of the concepts and ideas that originated (?) in HD)

E- Kou, ran tan and the other mods do as much as they can. And what they do do is a damn fine job! It's not as easy as it sounds to drop IRL stuff to update the character stats thread or so-such.

Uh, Kou was a RP mod as well and he did his share of work as well. :mellow:

[Madmazda86]

But all the same, there's a difference between inspiration and piking things =_= And besides, the point we're trying to make here is that this is the THIRD time it's happened. We are sick of it and so chose to show our disapproval in a more outright fashion.

[Kilias]

ugh whatever ...

[Meer]

But all the same, there's a difference between inspiration and piking things =_= And besides, the point we're trying to make here is that this is the THIRD time it's happened. We are sick of it and so chose to show our disapproval in a more outright fashion.

What happends to the people who aren't part of Ichigos, or uses another aka then?

[Maestrosetti]

Perhaps Harmonic Dissonance shouldn't be available to non-members, like Everyday Chatter.

[Kilias]

I was a member, and actually a quite active one at Spiky's old old forum and when his RP came here it turned into absolute cR@p

[Neko Koneko]

Killias aka Mithiras banned. Like Maz said, this is the third time this shit is happening, they got away with it before, now they don't. End of matter.

edit: it's so fucking easy to delete complete messages ~_~ that's what you get with linking. To all you stargalaxy freaks, go to your own stupid forum and leave us alone. We don't want you here so stop bugging us. You have your own place, now scram.

[Theshadowofdoubt]

The mods aren't corrupt. Thats all.

[Neko Koneko]

Scary Mithiras is now threatening to steal our RP members ~_~

edit:

I want to make one thing very clear: I am not the one who made the decision of banning people. This was decided upon by the RP mods. Don't throw your fucking shit at me, it's really getting on my nerves. Mithiras will stalk me if I don't unban Aeris, but of course him threatening me only gives me more reason to keep her banned. If he doesn't stop annoying me I'll simply start banning anyone I might remotely link towards him or Aeris. So people who know him, get him off my back.

[Hiei]

wow. Fighting fire with fire.

Remember that this isnt IRL situation, so if someone gets banned just get over it. If that person has a good reason not to be banned then take it to the administrator, not the messenger. If they complain its not going to get them anywhere. Threatening only builds up tension.

Learn to deal with it and get on with life.

[random_tangent]

For once, I half agree with Hiei.

And bloody hell people, it happened, it's STAYING happened. If we hadn't deemed it necessary, it WOULDN'T have happened.

@Mithiras: Just Bugger off, would you. You're one of the people who keep on doing this, and a good part of the reason why we've had to take the more drastic path.

@Everyone: As Angelic says, get off his back. This was NOT his decision, he just happens to be the one who put it into practice. Take it up with the RP mods. Or even better, don't bother. We did what we feel needed doing, and I'm perfectly willing to talk with anyone about it over MSN.

[Kou]

Fire~~ Fire spreading out of control~~ call the firefighters~~ (..)

*Sits, points and laughs*

[random_tangent]

*dumps a bucket of water over Kou's head*

Stop trying to make trouble, you! And don't call me rant, either XD

[R.E.G]

ok look, I'm not here to bash at all. Yes this is Eternity. I'm not here to complain, not here to whine at all. Simply for all the people who now probably hate me or anyone else. See I don't like leaving and saying how much you guys suck or any shit like that. But I can't leave without at least saying something. Sure, I made my own forum, you guys saw it and probably dissed it saying "What a ripoff" am I right? Don't deny it. It's your truth. I tried sending Angelic a letter in hotmail, either he'll read it or he won't. This is my words to everyone. if you believe I'm against you guys I just want to say I'm sorry. I don't intend to be like everyone else who've been banned by threatening, saying shit behind your backs. Most of the mods and Admins I have on MSN. you guys probably blocked me. I don't mind, it's your decision. My forum is much lower than you guys. less than 50 members and here has about 4000 and growing. All mods and Admins I met here are reasonable. Ran tan, Inu, you guys are still hilarious and everthing. I'm not gonna change how I feel about everyone because of this though it may be different among you girls. So this is my only post probably now as I'll probably be banned after this. Right Angelic? It's okay, I don't mind it. I never thought I would be unbanned anyway. Now you guys grow and you'll see how my forum dies away. I still don't see why my friends had to be banned also, for joining an RP that I asked them to... So basically the only one that should be banned is me. Mith is different as he keeps begging Angelic to bring back Aeris and Angelic gives him a comeback by dissing him back. I don't wish to get involved in that shit. This is just a post to say that my feelings towards everyone else hasn't changed and for me, in my opinion, there is no reason for me to change my opinion about you guys. So I take my leave. Feels abit depressing for me to say goodbye in a manner like this but I doubt you guys changing you minds is going to happen anytime soon. Take care everyone. Hey Angelic, You take care too.

[Hiei]

Mith is different as he keeps begging Angelic to bring back Aeris and Angelic gives him a comeback by dissing him back.

Scary Mithiras is now threatening to steal our RP members ~_~.

Mithiras will stalk me if I don't unban Aeris, but of course him threatening me only gives me more reason to keep her banned.


How contradicting.

[R.E.G]

I heard two sides. I'm not going with either.

[Gand]

I'm not an active member of the RP. In fact, I just randomly pop into the mod forums to check things out, and I enjoy reading many of the missions and plot stories.

I am constantly blown away by the impressive amount of work that all of our RP moderators have done for this RP. Not to mention the amazing work that was done to create Harmonic Dissonance. It has truely made it (as many have said) one of the most fun forum RPs around.

I am extremely disappointed that some of our former members would take the work that they all put into it and blatantly copy it for other RPs. Naturally, all RPs have common elements, especially those on the forum. But there are many things that our mods and creators have poured their hearts into which are being blatantly stolen.

I completely agree with the removal of these member from the forums. Membership here is a previlege, not a right. If they are going to be taking all our hard work and simply copying it over, they have absolutely no reason to be here.

To our RP mods: Angelic is right; imitation is the best form of flattery. It sucks, but take this as a huge complement and it shouldn't discourage you.

[Kou]

Yay, a mature approach. Although that's to be expected from our Gand :lol:

*Runs out of things to point and laugh at*

[Neko Koneko]

Next to our RP ideas and our members Mithiras was also threatening me tonight that he'd steal all of ichigo's sheet music. That's the kind of people they really are, trying to blackmail us with all kinds of things. Basically they're no better than terrorists, only they do it on the internet and without explosives.

[Gand]

Well, don't go too far.. they aren't killing anyone. Those threats are just because they have run out intelligent things to say, and are now obviously just trying to annoy all of us.

With all the copyright infringement (both against Ichigo's and with their file-trading forum) there's a good chance they could be shut down if they keep this up. I deal with this kind of stuff all the time. It would be a hard fight for the forum material, but if they start stealing sheet music then there's a basis.

Anyway, don't let them get to you. Like kids they will move on once they lose interest.

[Neko Koneko]

Yeah, I reckon, but I do think that everyone kind of has the right to know what kind of people we're dealing with here.

[Jaso]

Scary Mithiras is now threatening to steal our RP members ~_~

edit:

I want to make one thing very clear: I am not the one who made the decision of banning people. This was decided upon by the RP mods. Don't throw your fucking shit at me, it's really getting on my nerves. Mithiras will stalk me if I don't unban Aeris, but of course him threatening me only gives me more reason to keep her banned. If he doesn't stop annoying me I'll simply start banning anyone I might remotely link towards him or Aeris. So people who know him, get him off my back.

Angelic you are a monster! I am standing up for Aries because I think what I'm doing is right. She did not have any mean intentions and she is innocent! You are know better that Mithras threatening people like that! You are supposed to be a moderator; supposed to assist others. You are not doing your job as an moderator (you are A "corrupt moderator). If I am going to be banned for sticking up for my friends and do what is right, then so be it. I am not going to be in a community where power is used to squander the weak.

[Neko Koneko]

Sorry, but I think you missed the point that she joined a rip-off RP while knowing it was just that - a rip-off RP. If you say I'm abusing my "power" then go ahead and call it that way. I call it protecting what is ours. And like I said before, it's not been my decision so stop being an ignorant prick and stop accusing me of it.

[PFT_Shadow]

Angelic you are a monster!
not his call, RP mods decision

[Theshadowofdoubt]

Mith is just making new accounts every time he gets banned doesn't he? Mith/jaso do yourself a favor and just let it go for the sake of everyones sanity. Come on! If Aeris/Chi wants back then she should present us with a case and the mods will deliberate upon it. By constantly whining and complaining, and even the threats of stealing away our members, your not helping your case. In fact you should say sorry to Aeris who had a chance of getting back on before you ruined it. I'm fed up with all these people bitching and complaining.

The banned members are banned for a reason. If THEY feel like they've been wronged, THEY can get in touch with a mod or someone with forum access to let them know. I understand that you care for Aeris and don't want her to be punished for your, incredibly stupid and rash, actions but by helping her your hurting her at the same time. You may say that this is none of my business but it is. Its all of the RP's business because it directly involves us. Aeris was an active RPer when she understood what was happening in the plot and we're gonna miss her, but unless things change we're gonna have to accept the fact she's not welcome here. And apparently Mith/jaso, that goes double for you.

So from me on behalf of myself....Quit your fuckin bitching and grow a set.

[Nyuu]

Okay... this is Aeris.. I only registered again because I'm banned... and I'm not -really- entirely sure why. Weeelll, I know that I joined Mithiras' RP, but only because he asked me to as a friend.

Please NOTE, Angelic:

I did NOT think or know for one moment that it was a rip-off, I had no idea if it was, and I don't believe it is.

I don't believe I should be banned for completing one mission; I had nothing to do with making the forum, building the structure, etc, I only joined as a friend and to test it out. I did NOT know this would happen.

P.S. - Sorry for registering again, but I had to get my point across..

Sir Jaso: Thank-you for defending me, but... don't get yourself banned. ^^ Thanks~~

[Jaso]

You said it yourself Angelic!

I'll simply start banning anyone I might remotely link towards him or Aeris.


This IS an abuse of power! How dare you threaten us like this! It is not your call who bans us (clearly stated by PFT Shadow) and you are being very selfish indeed! Your job is not to verbally assault anyone who makes a similar RP (I'm not going into the whole rip-off RP thing - that's not my call); it is to provide service and help to those that need it. If you keep pointing your finger at people and blatently banning them for using too many spaces in a sentence or being in the wrong forum then nobody will like you, respect you or listen to you. In fact; if you keep this up; there be no one left to ignore you. So take this advice for and your's and everyone's sakes.: be a proper moderator, or you won't be happy.

[Nyuu]

You said it yourself Angelic!



This IS an abuse of power! How dare you threaten us like this! It is not your call who bans us (clearly stated by PFT Shadow) and you are being very selfish indeed! Your job is not to verbally assault anyone who makes a similar RP (I'm not going into the whole rip-off RP thing - that's not my call); it is to provide service and help to those that need it. If you keep pointing your finger at people and blatently banning them for using too many spaces in a sentence or being in the wrong forum then nobody will like you, respect you or listen to you. In fact; if you keep this up; there be no one left to ignore you. So take this advice for and your's and everyone's sakes.: be a proper moderator, or you won't be happy.

I agree with Sir Jaso . . . so does that mean Angelic's going to ban people who are my friends? :S I didn't think it was a rip-off RP, for the last time . . .

BTW, Shadow, erm, Sir Jaso isn't Mithiras... ^_^;

[Jaso]

I agree with Sir Jaso . . . so does that mean Angelic's going to ban people who are my friends? :S I didn't think it was a rip-off RP, for the last time . . .

BTW, Shadow, erm, Sir Jaso isn't Mithiras... ^_^;

Aries, Nyuu; everyone is entitled to freinds! Moderator or not. You can never break the freindship we share! Leave us alone and do your job!

Yes thats right... please note i am not Mith! This is my only account im someone else! And I dont threaten people or swear! I hate swearing so please dont accuse me!

[Maestrosetti]

It seems to me to be a security measure, not an attempt to breakup your friendship. Sheesh.

[yousee]

(I dont think its my place to say) but im an admin on another forum and i just have to say. It dont look good for admins or moderators if someone questions their decisions. Like They said, make an appeal but dont show blatant disrespect. I know some people may have been the victim of misunderstandings but tell them this in a calm manner. Otherwise discipline of the forum goes away.

[Jaso]

yousee i respect this but i have been calm for someone being blackmailed! I never swear because it is wrong and disrespect is most dishonourable aspeciallytowards the upper ranks: but i beleive this is for the greater good and it is worth fighting for.

[PFT_Shadow]

I want aries back as much as the next, but this isnt the way to do it. Discussion not calling angelic evil. apear to RP mods, they have the say over this matter

[Sondagger]

Please do a favor for me.

Don't yell at Angelic for all this. Infact it was a group effort as stated before. Me, Angelic, and all the other rp mods all had a say in it. We all came up with different ideas, and this one was the one that we all agreed on. So I ask of you, If you're going to be all pissy about it, don't just direct it at Angelic. Thank you.

Now, what's done is done. I've got nothing against most of these people, but what they did was wrong and they must pay for it. This banning is a punishment that has to be carried out. I know what its like to have something taken from you that you've worked on for a long time. It's happnened to me before. And its heartbreaking. You put all that work into it, for nothing? Please think about this for that perspecitve and you'll get a glimpse as to why I supported this decision.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but this has gone on far enough. As Gand stated it is a privlidge to be here. If you can respect our forum then you don't deserve to be here. Thank you.

[R.E.G]

Seriously, this topic should be simple and closed. We are banned for a reason and it's the reason what Mods and Admins believe in. I remember Spiky told me that he got the RP idea from another forum. Maybe I was wrong but I wanted to try anyways for myself. okay? I perhaps made a mistake, fuck, all the people defending for us being banned should just stop, you all aren't going to change anyone's mind. We're banned and let's just get on with our lives. I'm pretty sure Angelic and the Mods don't need to concern themselves more about this shit right? So how about everyone just get on with their lives and laugh at the banned people already? I'm pretty sure everyone against us is.

[Theshadowofdoubt]

Not true. I just don't like the bitching XD

[crackthesky]

Why don't you just lock this thread?

I think that the points have been stated and the decisions made.

What's the point of more people just saying their views?
It just leads to more arguement and people criticizing each other and all that...