My friend, the composer [PART THREE- VOTING]

[Thorn]

With the competition ending almost two weeks ago and no one hearing anything, we (the entrants) collectively decided to take the voting thread into our own hands.

Votes will be made publicly, and feel free to make comments to support your decision.

The original thread, with details of the competition is here

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Entries

Yuki no Namida (Tears of Snow)-- The Winning Team
String Quartet in Eb Major- Team Crumble-Onuts
Tetralatry- Meim + Thorn
Untitled- Team Skorchin’ Shizeet

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Descriptions

Yuki no Namida
String Quartet in Eb Major
Description of Tetralatry comes with the MIDI link above
Untitled

[Skorch]

I vote for the Untitled piece because it would be stupid of me not to vote for my own piece.

[deathraider]

Actually, on these forums, self voting is strictly prohibited.

I vote for Yuki no Namida (even though I hate myself for it since the name of their team annoys me so much), because it stays interesting throughout, and has some really cool atmospheres. However, I really thought Tetralatry would have been my first choice had it been less repetitive; it definitely dragged quite a bit in the first half.

Edit: the thing that I liked about Tetralatry was how well thought out it was, which is one of the things I most value in a piece.

[Tianlong]

Haha thanks Deathraider ! Don't worry, we aren't the type of guys that always think they are better than everyone. Porsche was just joking . :

So anyways, my vote goes to ..................... Untitled- Team Skorchin’ Shizeet's piece ( even though I hate myself for doing so because the name of their piece annoys me so much )

I chose this song because it is the one I was most entertained from. This song would have sounded really nice with some nice virtual instruments and since it was done in like a week , I think they deserve my vote.

I actually liked all the pieces in the contest but thought the other two dragged on and I lost interest after a while.

[Skorch]

Seriously? In that case I'm not gonna vote >_<
The first piece took too long. It made me get tired of string instruments
and then guess what! A STRING QUARTET >_< AGHHHH
Telatry was pretty intresting from what I heard of it but I couldn't listen to the whole thing for...various reasons.

Edit.
PS. I'll give real responses later. I'm at school!

[BigZenigata]

@ Skorch - the first piece is programatic, so it doesn't have to be short and sweet like a pop song. To each his own, tho

I gotta say, I've listened to all the piece here and although each one is unique and well done.... I vote "Tears of Snow".

As I heard it, that piece really blended the talents and styles of PorscheGTIII and Tianlong very well, to the point where I couldn't tell who did which section.... unlike a couple of the other songs where there seemed to be a clear cut difference in where one person left off and the other began. Instrumentation was superb (love the double bassoon at the end chord! ) and it really pulled at my emotions... which is what music is supposed to do.

Well done and good luck to all!

[Sir_Dotdotdot]

Since Noir was absent for a while, it's unfortunate that we cannot finish our composition. Asides from that, I was rather busy over the past little while, but now that I've got some time, I guess it's time for me to comment~

Tetralatry:

By the looks of the score, indeed I was very much reminded of Satie's Gymnopedies (especially the theme itself). But if I was to be picky about the score, I'd say: be decisive and don't mix French and Italian together. It's not a major problem, but it's just to make the score more professional. On the musical side, I find that there are too much going on. Yes, the coherence is there with the theme being the focus of the composition. However, because there are too many textures, the overall form of the composition became rather rigid. I guess something your group may wish to improve on is the overall coherence in style and keeping a composition together without having too many ideas. It's not bad overall!


Yuki no Namida:

Noir and I were originally composing a piece based on a wintery story too, so it is interesting to see what other people would do to a similar theme. Perhaps I should describe this as more of an incidental piece than a concert piece. Technically speaking, it feels rather sparse. Where's the countermelody? You've got a melody. You've got some harmony, but where's the interesting stuff in between? I would also call this piece musically adventurous seeing the fact that there's a contrasting section in the middle. Oh, and watch out for the use of percussion. The drums got rather tedious after a while. I mean, it's alright to have it playing for a while, but do it tastefully by varying it in texture and rhythmic motifs. Also, those long notes on the violin, they just go on forevvvveeer and ever... Do something about them. More vibrato, drop an octave, harmonics, whatever, but don't kill the audience. Overall, I felt the piece dragged a little too long. My composition prof once told me: if you could get a point over to the audience in 5 minutes, you don't need another extra 5 to annoy your audience. It's not a bad piece, but I feel that it is rather mediocre.

String Quartet in Eb:

Okay, very important point: writing for string quartet isn't writing for string orchestra. Your group's approach to this 'quartet' was way too... Not string quartet. Yes, Borodin wrote like this. But look at Mozart's quartet, look at Ravel's, Shostakovich's, Webern's... It's quartet writing, all four parts are equally of importance. Therefore, you need to give equal importance to all parts. But from the first movement, I only hear the first violin in prominence yet the other instruments never got their moments. Also, there was not enough contrast to capture the audience's attention. It just dragged on until the second movement. The second movement seemed more promising with its voicing. Yes, pizzicato accompaniment is nice, but don't make it so static. Some cello Bartok pizz. is nice... Overall, I find this piece lacking in exposing what a quartet is supposed to do. Where's the double stops and triple stops? Where's the elegance of a quartet? The interplay of the four parts? Sometimes writing a quartet is more complicated than writing, say, an orchestral piece. In orchestral music, you can get by with harmony vs. melody. But in quartet writing, you have only 4 instruments! When you thought you could do some harmony, you'd suddenly realize you won't have enough countermelody, and etc... Quartet writing isn't easy. In fact, it was what I was busy with for the last while. I've been told that composers should write a quartet every 10 years as it shows how proficient they are with counterpoints, melodic arrangements, and various other aspects of music. But asides from my rant, my overall comment: it lacks the spirit of a quartet I looked foward to.

Untitled:

I don't know why, I was reminded of Bartok immediately. Which is a good thing, I like Bartok. Again, Shizeet, I love your orchestration and instrumental colourings and counterpoint and harmony. However, the major issue with this piece is its coherence in melodic elements. I just felt that the melody repeated too much or just never happened at all. Variation and development is the key here. It felt that your melody never went anywhere. However, it's sometimes a good thing. But in your case, the orchestration you did seemed to want to thrive, but then your melodic structure suddenly held it back from developing it into something more interesting.

Overall, I see a lot of effort in these compositions. I applaud for that. But one common thing that these four compositions share is that they are all rather... Too overwhelming. Yes, personal expression is important in music. But if it's not done in an organized, and at times 'intelligent' way, then it'd be like a rant versus an essay in writing. Both a rant and an essay could have extraordinary ideas, but the idea of an essay just gives the reader a sense that it'll be cultured and intelligent. I'm not saying these four pieces are unintelligent (in fact, Tetralatry is rather clever in many ways), but I felt they could be organized much better if more form was used.

My vote goes Untitled by Shizeet and Skorch. As mentioned before, the orchestration is well done. Though I would say there are things to be improved upon in the melodic structures, it still felt relatively exciting with the different textures of the orchestration. Very well done, nevertheless.

[deathraider]

All I can say is that I'm sorry that I'm not Ravel. I think that if you had evaluated other aspects of my movement besides just that it wasn't what you think a string quartet should be, you would have found some things of merit. Furthermore, I think that you underestimate the polyphony that I did use; it most definitely was not only the first violin always having the melody. In fact the second violin had it more often.

However, I realize that it was not exactly challenging to play, or even really exciting. It was supposed to be a very slow moving, lulling movement.

Sorry, but I feel I have to defend my song. It is, after all, my brain child.

[InfinityEX]

Do I have to explain why?...

If not then... I'll vote Untitled....sorry Porsche x]

yeah as Sir Dot Dot said, Tears of Snow kinda dragged on a little....If thats what he meant o.0

[Matt]

Originally Posted by deathraider

All I can say is that I'm sorry that I'm not Ravel. I think that if you had evaluated other aspects of my movement besides just that it wasn't what you think a string quartet should be, you would have found some things of merit. Furthermore, I think that you underestimate the polyphony that I did use; it most definitely was not only the first violin always having the melody. In fact the second violin had it more often.

However, I realize that it was not exactly challenging to play, or even really exciting. It was supposed to be a very slow moving, lulling movement.

Sorry, but I feel I have to defend my song. It is, after all, my brain child.

Regardless of what Sir_Dot didn't comment on, I agree with the things he did say. To me, it seems like you concentrated too much on the violin and completely forgot what you could do with the other instruments... one would expect an interesting cello or viola part in a 5 minute String Quartet, but there is none. Overall, I think, you very much ignored the middle ground of the piece, focusing on the fore- and background only. The second part of the song is much better than the first, which is rather boring with all the long notes and simple harmony.

Anyway, I think you should appreciate constructive criticism more, remember, he spend his time to give you genuine advice. It seems like, he wasted his time in this case though, because you feel defending your opinion is more important than improving.

Back to the actual topic of this thread: I vote for "Yuki no Namida", the themes are quite good and do have a wintry feeling to them, especially the one in the beginning. Of course there are things you could have improved, some of the transitions between the motifs seem a bit abrupt for example, but that's always a problem when you work in teams (and themes ). The long violin notes between the first and the second motif are rather annoying. You did a good job on the percussions and the rhythm, although you should have used a larger variety of drums to make it more interesting and to prevent it from growing too repetitive. The quality of the audio is impressive and I guess it took a hell of a long time to sample it.

[Nyu001]

Hmm, so far the votes are:

Yuki no Namida (Tears of Snow): 4 Votes
String Quartet in Eb Major: 0 Votes
Tetralatry: 0 Votes
Untitled: 2 vote

How long will be the voting process? I am still not sure for which one to vote.

[Skorch]

Originally Posted by Sir_Dotdotdot

Untitled:
However, the major issue with this piece is its coherence in melodic elements. I just felt that the melody repeated too much or just never happened at all. Variation and development is the key here. It felt that your melody never went anywhere. However, it's sometimes a good thing. But in your case, the orchestration you did seemed to want to thrive, but then your melodic structure suddenly held it back from developing it into something more interesting.

Hm...Is that something that could be blamed on me or shizeet? Cause I think that's pretty much my fault. I had alota homework the week we worked on this so I didn't get do what I told shizeet I was gonna do -.-

[deathraider]

Originally Posted by Matt

Anyway, I think you should appreciate constructive criticism more, remember, he spend his time to give you genuine advice. It seems like, he wasted his time in this case though, because you feel defending your opinion is more important than improving.

I'm sorry, my point wasn't that I mind him (or you for that matter) giving constructive criticism, but I don't take criticism well when its given in such a condescending manner. I really feel like you guys are too quick to pull apart my movement and point out all its weaknesses; I really put a lot of thought into it, and I know there are strengths there that you are discounting, even if they aren't extremely complicated harmonies (sometimes true musicality comes from the simplicity of a piece) and even though I did not give cello its fair share of the melody.

I'm sorry to go off topic but this is something that has always frustrated me, and will always frustrate me.

Edit: I know someone will automatically think that I'm just being a sore loser, but it has nothing to do with winning. As most people would realize by looking at my thread, I tend to be quite defensive of my songs when someone blindly criticizes them.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by Nyu001

Hmm, so far the votes are:

Yuki no Namida (Tears of Snow): 4 Votes
String Quartet in Eb Major: 0 Votes
Tetralatry: 0 Votes
Untitled: 2 vote

How long will be the voting process? I am still not sure for which one to vote.

Err... well maybe until Easter (next Sunday) is long enough? so another week? even though i think virtually everyone who is going to vote has already voted.

im not sure which to vote for yet either

to be honest, group compositions are like getting two artists to work together on the same painting: both are nice in their own right but together they just dont have the same quality as an individual painting.

when this is taken into consideration, i would say that on the whole people are being a bit harsh. out of all the options we were given for a type of composition, you voted for the hardest and most troublesome one, and then still expect the finished products to be as amazing as, for example, the entries of the summer 07 competition. no wonder some teams dropped out- when it actually came down to doing the work they realised that it wasnt just a case of "yay lets hold hands and be a team because we're cool"

so yeah... what im trying to say is that it was a difficult competition and everyone has done well to even put something together. so there's no need to get so heat up about other people's comments.

[Tianlong]

http://download.yousendit.com/57FD9FC579C5F5A9

Here's the new link for the song..I think another week should be enough. Porsche if you could edit it again plz.

@Deathraider: Hey don't worry about it so much man. I thought Sir... was being harsh with us too but he gave his opinion so anyways. We at least made it for the deadline which is already pretty good I think. Remember what Noir7 said ? People that dont actually post their contest song will lose 12 cool points haha !

One thing is, people in here hope we would have the composing skills they are looking for, instead of looking at our entry as a piece we had one month and a half to work on with someone you can only contact by internet. I think some are taking things really too seriously and should be a little more open minded about everything in here. We're here to have fun aren't we ?